Making Love Accessible

Jacqueline Child:
Yeah, we really aim to de-stigmatize disability. It's a fact. It's a part of us and it's just like my religion or race. And so we hope that Dateability normalizes disability and chronic illness and that people really do realize that disabled people are worthy and able to love and they're worthy of sexual relationships and so on.

Joeita Gupta:
I'm Joeita Gupta, and this is The Pulse. Valentine's Day is around the corner, which means romance is in the air. Dating can be difficult for a number of people. It's sometimes intimidating to put yourself out there, perhaps meet new people, make awkward small talk on a first date, but people with disabilities have some additional challenges. First, you have to find an accessible location to meet for your date. Then you have to potentially disclose your disability to a date. You might have, very early on, some tough conversations about kids or money or caregiving for that matter. But regardless of ability, dating can be an extremely rewarding experience. It's a pathway to lifelong companionship and mutual support. Today, we discuss making dating accessible. It's time to put your finger on the pulse.
Hello and welcome to The Pulse on AMI Audio. I'm Joeita Gupta. Great to be with you here again at the AMI Accessible Media Studios down in Toronto. You can see behind me we're in Studio five and it's, you've got these green and yellow squares on a black background. I think there's a blue square as well. You might get to see that if I wiggle around in my chair and swivel a bit. I'll try not to do that. I'll try to keep looking at the camera, but I'm sure the videographers will tell me if I've swivelled in my chair. That sometimes happens when I get wrapped up in the conversation.
I know we've done a couple of shows about dating, sex and disability, but I do feel like it's one of those conversations that you can never get enough off. I remember feeling really overwhelmed by the dating experience, albeit it was a long time ago. And I think that it's complicated now to date, especially with so many apps and so many options for partners. And for all that we've seen evolutions at how we meet people, we were just talking about it before the show, you're not really meeting in the same conventional ways now. You're mostly meeting people online. For all that has all changed in the last, I would say 10 to 15 years, there's still not really been an acknowledgement that people with disabilities also want to be out there dating and meeting people.
So I was really excited to come across an app. It's called Dateability, and the name is a bit of a giveaway. It's an app designed for people with disabilities to try and meet people. It's supposed to be a safe space, not only for people with disabilities, but also for people from the LGBTQS2 community. And I'm really excited to welcome to the show the co-creators of Dateability, Alexa and Jacqueline Child. Hello and welcome to The Pulse. It's great to have you with us today.

Jacqueline Child:
Thank you for having us. We're honoured to be included.

Joeita Gupta:
I have to say it's kind of nice to have both of you because I've racked my brains and I cannot remember the last time... In fact, I'll even go so far to say I don't think we've ever had a pair of sisters on the program, so it's really exciting to have a first on the show. It doesn't often happen that I get to say that. Tell me a little bit, Alexa, about how Dateability got started.

Alexa Child:
Yeah. So my name's Alexa. I'm the co-founder of Dateability, and it got started because of my sister's negative experiences on the mainstream dating apps. She is disabled due to chronic illness and experienced a lot of ableism and offensive comments once she disclosed her disability, regardless of what stage the relationship was in. It didn't really matter whether she told somebody right away or when they got to know each other more, she was always met with rejection.
And then about over a year ago, now a year and a half ago, she finally made the tough decision to get a feeding tube for her gastroparesis. And I panicked for her because she had already struggled so much on the dating apps. How was a person who doesn't have much experience with disability or chronic illness going to understand that she doesn't eat three meals a day, that she gets her nutrition from a formula while she sleeps at night? I know she had always looked for a dating app for the disabled community and people like her, but she could never find one. And I decided to suggest, we both decided right then and there, let's make our own.

Joeita Gupta:
Jacqueline, I'm sorry to hear you've had such a tough time dating. I wish I could say it was an isolated experience. But I think you'd agree with me when I say that people with disabilities do face a number of barriers such as the types that Alexa has described. Give us a bit of a rundown of Dateability. If I were to click on the app, and I know it's available for iOS and Android, but tell us about some of the features available on the app.

Jacqueline Child:
So what makes us different besides our mission and our inclusive platform is that we have a section called Dateability Deets on every profile. So when you sign up, you can enter your basic information like your education, vaccination status and your pictures, but there's also a section that called Dateability Deets, and it's an extensive list of broad terms. So you can select chronic pain, ambulatory wheelchair user, permanent medical device, and those types of terms, and it really just gives people a good neutral way to disclose their disability. There's no anxiety involved in having to just put it out there and it really neutralizes disability. It's a part of me. It's going to be like this and this is who I am and please accept it.

Joeita Gupta:
How widely available is this app, Jacqueline? Is it available here in Canada as well?

Jacqueline Child:
It is. It's available in the US, Canada, and Mexico. And like you said, it's available on iOS and Android and it's also available on web applications. So people can go to dateabilityapp.com and use it because we really want to make Dateability accessible and that includes a web version for people who use computers or laptops. And our community is growing. It's small. So right now, I will be able to see people in Canada, but hopefully soon, once our community grows, we can flip that location function on and only date within our area.

Joeita Gupta:
Alexa, do you have a background in tech, either of you? Or how did you actually go about designing the app?

Alexa Child:
Neither of us have a background in tech. I'm a public interest attorney and Jacqueline's background's in psychology, although she is more tech-savvy than I am. She has some experience the graphic design so that came in handy.
When designing the app, we started out taking pen to paper and drew out what every page was going to look like, what all the icons would look like, what our logo would look like, and then Jacqueline translated it onto the computer, made the logos, made the graphics. And then we have a great team out here about 30 minutes from Denver and Boulder, and they brought our vision to life and they do all of the tech engineering and coding and support and maintenance, and they're amazing.

Joeita Gupta:
Oh, that's nice. It's good to have somebody else take care of all of that backend stuff and then you can focus on all the cool front-end stuff. Jacqueline, you being the inspiration behind the logo, can you describe it for us and tell us what your logo actually looks like?

Jacqueline Child:
Yeah. So we have two logos, I would say. Our first one, Dateability, is our main logo and it is the symbol of a wheelchair user. And it is faced towards the left so that it looks like a D, a capital D. And then it says, proceeds to say Dateability with some hearts on the eyes. And then our app icon logo is the wheelchair user symbol with a red heart around it. And we just wanted to make it very obvious that this app is for the disabled and chronically ill communities and there's no confusion there.

Joeita Gupta:
Alexa, is the app only for the disability community or can people without disabilities also sign up?

Alexa Child:
People without disabilities are welcome and encouraged to sign up as long as they share the same values as Dateability and our mission, but we know that... We don't believe that just because you're disabled, you have to date somebody with disabilities. And so we want everyone to join as long as they're understanding. We know that there are people out there who aren't ableist. They're able-bodied but they're not ableist, people like me who have been around someone with a disability for years and are comfortable with it. So yeah, we are inclusive in every aspect.

Joeita Gupta:
You make such an interesting point because often, Alexa, when you encounter couples where one person let's say has a visible disability and the other person is visibly able-bodied, there's a sense that the person who's able-bodied is, I don't know, almost saint-like or extremely... Almost as though they're doing something charitable by dating someone with a disability. How might we try to change some of those perceptions of able-bodied people dating people with disabilities?

Alexa Child:
Yeah. I would say everybody has their stuff. I've got my flaws. My future partner is going to... There's going to be a lot of things about me that will require patience, and I think that we have to remember that. I also think health is always changing and evolving. And while I may be able-bodied today, that doesn't mean that I will be able-bodied tomorrow or a week from now or a year from now. The majority of people age into disability, and so I think it's really important to remember that.
But that perception that the able-bodied person is saint-like is ableism to a T. Jacqueline can speak to this. Jacqueline lives a full and fulfilling life. So whoever decides to date her in the future is so lucky and so blessed. So yeah. Hopefully, this app will get rid of that perception as well.

Jacqueline Child:
Yeah. We really aim to destigmatize disability. It's a fact. It's a part of us and it's just like my religion or race. And so we hope that Dateability normalizes disability and chronic illness and that people really do realize that disabled people are worthy and able to love and they're worthy of sexual relationships and so on.

Joeita Gupta:
A big fear, if I can bring up the stereotype that an enable bodied person may have when they meet a person with a disability or consider dating a person with a disability is am I going to essentially become their caregiver. Jacqueline, how might someone address that concern?

Jacqueline Child:
Oh, it's a heavy one. I think explaining that disabled people, the majority of disabled people are on their own and don't require caretaking. And even if someone does require a caregiver, that doesn't necessarily mean that's going to fall on someone's partner. But I've been told many times that I would be too much of a burden or place too much stress on someone's life. I've been told that by able-bodied people, and it's just really important to know that disabled people are able to accomplish anything. And even if we do require some extra help, it never falls on our partner.

Joeita Gupta:
And even if it did, so what? Able-bodied people get all kinds of help from their partners, whether that partner be able-bodied or disabled. Take my husband. I pick up after him. I cook the meals. Nobody ever says, "Oh, that's caregiving work," or something above and over. That's just part and parcel of being in a relationship.
Alexa, part of having an app might also be, and you've alluded to this, generating a bit of a community and maybe having a bit of a conversation about dating and disability. How have you addressed concerns around fetishism, where people may have a desire to date people with disabilities because it's outside of their normal experience? So how do you create safety to prevent that sort of thing from happening on Dateability?

Alexa Child:
Yeah. That's a good question. We were largely unfamiliar with the fetishes and the devotee community, and we have done research. Not all devotee relationships are predatory. Some of them are consensual. And for those relationships, whatever floats your boat, that's up to the two consenting adults. But our concern is obviously the more predatory ones and the people who also view people with disabilities as vulnerable and like to prey on them. So safety's really big. We think that this is where a lot of any other attempt and app like this has failed and this is what sets us apart because we care so much about that.
So when somebody logs on to the app and they're doing their onboarding, their sign, that process, there's a tutorial on how to use the app and also a safe dating tutorial. So we think educating yourself and educating our users is the best way to remain safe. If somebody's insisting on taking the conversation to Google Chat or WhatsApp, that's probably a red flag. If somebody asks you to send them money, that is definitely a red flag. If somebody's asking harmful or offensive or questions that are really, you feel like they're prying, red flag. And with that behaviour, each profile has a report abuse and block button. And so if somebody's engaging in that kind of behaviour, the other user on the receiving end can block and report them. Those reports come directly to us and they're reviewed regularly, and then we can take action and remove them from the app.
Our safe dating tips and resources are also under our settings, so they're always available if somebody wants to refer to them. And then lastly, we are in the process of implementing a profile verification badge so that we can make sure that there's not as much catfishing going on. So we will verify their photos personally, and then each profile that does this will get a badge that you know there's that extra layer of safety there.

Joeita Gupta:
And it's one of the things that I think makes this app a really wonderful place for people with disabilities, especially if it's your first foray into dating. Jacqueline, what sort of feedback have you gotten about the app?

Jacqueline Child:
We've gotten great feedback. I think this is an app that a lot of the community has been looking for and has asked for so many years, and we're lucky that, and fortunate that we were able to give that to them. It's so personal to me. I want this to work for myself and for the rest of the community. So any sort of feedback we get, constructive criticism, we take that into consideration and we'll implement those changes if we see fit. And it's really nice to get those messages saying, "Thank you so much. I was setting up my profile and I didn't have any anxiety when I was logging on because I know that people on here are expecting me and they're not going to be taken aback by my chronic pain or my symptoms." And so I think it's been really heartwarming to be able to provide this, but it's also been very bittersweet to know that my experience is not unique and a lot of people have gone through what I have.

Joeita Gupta:
And yet dating apps are ubiquitous now. I think it's really the way that most people are meeting partners nowadays. I know that an app like Dateability is important and it has a place, but Jacqueline, what does this say about the mainstream dating app world? There's so many options out there. Is this also, in a way, an invitation to the more mainstream apps to start to have a conversation about including disability in the conversation?

Jacqueline Child:
I think that the dating apps have been around for 10+ years and they've never included any sort of disability element. If a mainstream dating app implemented something like Dateability Deets where you can check off disabled, people don't read other people's profiles. They'll swipe on anyone that they think looks attractive or that their profile looks, at first glance, desirable. People don't read. And so I don't think it works out like that. It's unfortunate that it was 2022 when a dating app like this was launched, but it's also consistent with society's perception on disability. We're the largest minority, but often the last to be discussed in the inclusivity conversation. We're forgotten and we have to remember that we're here and intersectionality exists and we know we need to make the world more accessible for us.

Alexa Child:
I also think that the other mainstream dating apps, they don't have the story that we have or the understanding. So yeah, they can put a plug-in to appeal to the disability community, but Jacqueline has been through it. She really, while she can't speak for everybody in the disability community, she really understands the struggles and really respects her peers and wants to deliver a great product. And so I think that is also a huge defining factor for us.

Joeita Gupta:
I said in my monologue, Jacqueline, that conversations about kids and money and who's responsible for what can happen relatively early on in a relationship involving a person with a disability or a relationship involving two or more people with disabilities. Maybe that's just an assumption on my part, but do you have any tools on how people with disabilities might negotiate some of those conversations? Because when you get into money and things like social benefits or medical care, those conversations can become, not only are they very pressing, but they can become very complicated very fast.

Jacqueline Child:
Yeah. I've experienced those conversations very early on and they never end well, so I don't have that much advice out of my own experience. But discussing these things with people you trust... People don't deserve all of the information all at once. I'm not going to go tell someone every single detail about my life, and if someone asks me something like that early on, how do I make money? Can I have kids? My red flags go up and I'm like, "No, this is inappropriate. Would you ask an able-bodied person this?" Probably not. And so really figuring out if you trust the person you're speaking to is important.

Joeita Gupta:
That's a really good point. And how possible is it for... Disability is an important thing to talk about, but we know that there are intersections within the disability community as well. Jacqueline, how does Dateability try and embrace some of those intersectionalities?

Jacqueline Child:
Yeah. We welcome the LGBTQ+ community. We really want this to be an inclusive platform of all races, religion, genders, and so we hope that our user base is accepting towards that. And if at any point a user experiences any inappropriate comments or messages, or a profile seems to be expressing hate, we take those down. We also are really committed to fighting for disability rights. We want to use our platform to speak on disability rights and fight for marriage equality and fight for affordable universal healthcare and make sure that our efforts go beyond a dating app and we really make a huge difference at a macro level.

Joeita Gupta:
That's beautiful. Alexa, what are you hoping for the app in terms of its future growth and development?

Alexa Child:
Yeah. I hope that, and I'm confident that this year, Dateability is going to go viral. It's going to be up there with all the other mainstream dating apps that we know so well. It'll have that name recognition and that this is the app that the disability and chronically ill communities will flock to and find love and companionship. We heard rumours of one success story already, although it's in the early stages.
We have big plans. We are going to add in a friendship feature so that people looking for just platonic relationships and friends can join Dateability for that as well. We've heard from our user base and the disability community that it can be difficult to find those platonic friends, even if somebody's married, but they're disabled, a lot of their able-bodied friends, they drift apart. And so we really want Dateability to just be a safe community, a safe place.

Joeita Gupta:
That's such a good point. I've been married now for 10 years. I'd totally feel lost if I had to start dating again, but you make such a good point about not having a lot of friendships because a lot of your friends end up getting married or have kids or have lives of their own. They move away. So having friends and having supports outside of our relationship is also really important. But if you are dipping a toe in the water and you want to start dating, Jacqueline, I'm going to give you the last word, what advice would you give to a dater with a disability?

Jacqueline Child:
Be yourself, own it, but go at your own speed. Disclose whatever information you want when you feel comfortable. Put yourself out there because you never know who is going to accept you for who you are and create a beautiful life together.

Joeita Gupta:
That's wonderful. Jacqueline, Alexa Child, thank you both for being here today.

Jacqueline Child:
Thank you.

Alexa Child:
Thank you so much for having us.

Joeita Gupta:
Jacqueline and Alexa Child are the co-creators and founders of Dateability, an app which is available right here in Canada, of course, along with the United States and Mexico. It is a growing community and it is available for iOS and Android, if you'd like to download that app and start to take a peek at what they have to offer.
I should have mentioned I am wearing a Maroon V-neck sweater today just as a nod to Valentine's Day. It's okay if you don't celebrate Valentine's Day. I'm not very big on the holiday either, but it is always nice to, especially this time of year, bring a bit of colour into your life and perhaps, bring a bit of romance into your life or even go on that first date or make a new friend and try to bring some relationships and bring some people into your life and expand your social circles. I really liked what they said about also not just having relationships, but also trying to bring friendships and bringing some of those relationships to bear on the quality of your life because your friends become so important to you as you grow older, as of course, are your relationships. Those are obviously very important.
Well, that's about as much time as we have for today. That's really it for the show. If you have any feedback about this show or any of the other episodes for The Pulse, you can always write to us at feedback@ami.ca. You can find us on Twitter @AMIaudio. Use the hashtag #PulseAMI. You can hit me up on Twitter @JoeitaGupta. You can always give us a call. We don't have enough voicemail, so feel free to give us a ring if that's your cup of tea, you can reach us at 1-866-509-4545. That's 1-866-509-4545. And don't forget to leave your permission so we can play the audio on the program.
Lots of people to say thank you to today. Ted Cooper and Matthew McGurk are our videographers. Ryan Delahanty is the coordinator for podcast at AMI-audio. Mark Aflalo is our technical producer. Andy Frank is the manager for AMI-audio. And on behalf of all the team here, I've been your host, Joeita Gupta. Thanks for listening and for those celebrating, happy Valentine's Day.