Shameless with Ben Akuoko

Ben Akuoko:
Put down your sub, lady, and help me out. What are you doing? I need assistance and just stuff like that. And even...

Jennie Bovard:
You're so entitled.

Ben Akuoko:
Yeah, well.

Jennie Bovard:
Put down your sub and help me out.

Ben Akuoko:
I was hangry. I was hangry.

Jennie Bovard:
Well, hello and welcome. This is Low Vision Moments. It's the podcast all about those, sometimes frustrating, potentially embarrassing, but often pretty comical things that happen when you are just going about your day with a visual impairment, blindness or albinism. I'm Jennie Bovard, hello, I'm your host. And this right here is episode number 33.
Let's talk about embarrassment, shame, humiliation, shall we? We all love talking about those stories, those things that happened to us. Like it or not, we all experience one form of these kinds of things from time to time, and I am no exception. You hear it all the time on the podcast if you watch or listen, and I have walked into and knocked over more than my share of wet floor signs, just as one example. And let me tell you, there is no graceful way to get away with that. There's no graceful or silent or quiet way to sneak that one by anybody.
So what else are you going to do other than deal with that twinge of embarrassment and look around and pick up the sign if you can find it, put it back where you found it, and hopefully not slip on the actual wet floor that the sign was trying to warn you about. Move on with your day.
So here to discuss our shameless approach to life and the embarrassing moments that come along with it, the unapologetic and shameless approach to life that I think this guest shares with me. I'd like to introduce and welcome Ben Akuoko to the Low Vision Moments podcast.

Ben Akuoko:
Thank you, Jennie. Thank you for having me today. I'm so excited. It's been two years in the making. So yeah, let's get this baby started.

Jennie Bovard:
When you say two years in the making, I think that means you've been listening and/or watching on YouTube, which I love. Love to bring a listener slash viewer on, and get your experience. I guess you have an idea of how things go around here, but you also host, you co-host rather, a podcast of your own. That's the CNIB podcast, which is called The Lens: Living Diverse, which I think does such a great job at sharing just a really nice array of stories from individuals and their sight loss or visual impairment journey, and really as well as organizations that are connected and supporting the blind community. So what else, other than being a co-host of your very own show, what else do you want the people to know about you, Ben?

Ben Akuoko:
Of course, of course. So as you said, I co-host The Lens: Living Diverse, a really amazing podcast. And with that said, what I do is advocacy, a lot of advocacy and awareness and accessibility and education in the role that I have. And then also on top of that, I'm a recent Masters of Social Work graduate. So eventually one day I want to kind of have my side practice where I'm able to counsel racialized families with disabilities, right? So with children with disabilities, because if you are listening to The Lens: Living Diverse, you know that we're looking at different identities. So it's so important to have that perspective as well. A little bit about me as well is I love to run. I love to work out. I do a little bit of hip hop, I write a little bit of R&B music, and I'm just an adventurous cat and just likes to get myself in a little bit of trouble, for sure. A little bit of trouble in a good way, in a good way.

Jennie Bovard:
I think I'm already finding out that we have a lot in common, and we haven't talked about this, but I'm really into running too. So let's not go too far off the rails with that because as a runner you know we could probably talk about that for days, at least the whole podcast.

Ben Akuoko:
All day, all day. Of course, of course.

Jennie Bovard:
Well, that's awesome. I'm really happy for you with your recent graduation. That is such an important role that you're going to be filling in the community. So I look forward to seeing what you do with that as well. Now before we move on, I decided to have you on as a guest because of a recommendation from my dear friend and coworker Ramya, Ramya Amuthan of the Kelly and Ramya show on AMI. When Ramya comes to me and says, "Hey, I've got this friend and they've got a bunch of amazing stories, you should really have them on the podcast," I jump at that because I have such respect for Ramya and she has such good taste. So thank you to Ramya in advance. And if you haven't checked out her content, Kelly and Ramya is where it's at. She's got a podcast of her own, and we'll link that in the show notes as well.
But we could talk about running, we could talk about Ramya, but we're here to chat about the shameless and again, sort of unapologetic way that we deal with the things that come at us in our day-to-day lives. And we talk a lot about these things on this podcast, but when we were planning this conversation, Ben, I kind of struggled to, I was thinking to myself, what really embarrasses me? What do I feel ashamed about? And if this was a different time in my life, if this was 10 or 15 years ago even, I think I would have a long list. I think I would have a pretty long list of things that we could talk about. But this thought process really only solidified for me how much I've changed in the last several years. And it's a good thing. And that really came through when you and I first met, that you seem to have always had this attitude.
And maybe that's not the case. But one instance not too long ago that sort of sent me on this track and sort of thinking like, wow, I've really come a long way. There was this really lovely coffee shop about a 20-minute walk from my home, my husband and our dog and I would go on our weekend family walkie there, usually on a Saturday or a Sunday. We would take our nice walk down to the coffee shop. And what was really cool, it was called Local Joe. And what was really cool is they had a little takeout window where pedestrians, not motorists, but pedestrians or people on bikes or people with their dogs, they actually loved having dogs come up to the window. We were welcome to come up to the window and just place our order there and get our order right through the window, not have to go inside.
Really nice option when you have a dog that's not a service dog like mine. So we frequented this place all the time. Unfortunately, it closed after something like 20 years of being open. I know, right?

Ben Akuoko:
Yeah.

Jennie Bovard:
It's actually a big loss. There's nowhere local to go anymore to get my coffee in my neighbourhood. But I digress. Thank you for your sympathy. Not too long before they closed, we popped over to the Local Joe coffee shop and I had to run in and use the facilities. I had had a coffee before we left the house, so I had to make room for more coffee. So my husband and dog wait outside. I head inside. I know exactly where the washroom is because I had been there many times before in my many, many years living in the neighbourhood. I know exactly where to go, even though the stairs inside are a little iffy to say the least. They're a little steep, a little sketchy. Made it in there, no problem. I get into the washroom though. The toilet seat is not on. It's not on the toilet. So luckily, this may be too much information, but that's kind of the game here on Low Vision Moments.
I've got strong legs, I'm good to hover. We talked about running. I can just hover like nobody's business. It's kind of not a big deal to me, but as I come out, I think, oh, I should probably let someone know about this. Not everyone can hover. Some people need a seat, and this seat was not attached at all. It was kind of hanging off to the side.
So I go up to the counter, I think I'm doing a nice thing and I say, "Oh, hey, I thought I should let you know. I think there's something wrong with the toilet seat in there. It might need to be screwed on or something. It's really not sitting on it at all." And they, do you want to know what they said?

Ben Akuoko:
What did they say? Let's hear it.

Jennie Bovard:
Oh yeah, that's why there's an out-of-order sign on the door.

Ben Akuoko:
The good old out-of-order sign.

Jennie Bovard:
There were a bunch of customers in there, there were staff in there. They let me go in there. No one said anything.

Ben Akuoko:
Oh my goodness. Yeah, the good old out-of-order sign. And it's funny because I love how you, with that story, first of all is noticing something. So I love the wet floor sign that you made mention at the beginning. And it's funny with all us blind folk, literally, I like to call myself like the blind Pele, you know? Because I'm always kicking wet floor signs. You know what I mean? So.

Jennie Bovard:
Yes.

Ben Akuoko:
Totally. And it's those things that we miss. Actually, I got a similar story for you where I remember I used to really visit the Mississauga area, so I used to work around there, and I remember I was coming from Square One, and in between, for those who know that area of Square One, in between Square One and the Transit Depot, is this place where you could go to a washroom, you could get coffee and just like you, just like you and your coffee, I needed to run to the washroom.
And I still remember going into the washroom, washing my hands. Everything's nice and whatever, just like a regular visit to a washroom. I believe I was somewhat of a cane user. And I remember going to a washroom and then just looking back and seeing a man come out the other washroom, and after I was just like, I was just in the woman's washroom and no one said anything. Someone came and washed their hands beside me, and me thinking it was just so natural. And this is like 2000. So honestly, I was just like, oh my gosh. I just walked in the washroom casually, and I was so natural about it. It's just like la la, la, la, la. So definitely those things that we miss for sure.

Jennie Bovard:
No harm, no foul. And all the people that didn't say anything, hopefully, it's because they were such accepting people. Right?

Ben Akuoko:
Exactly. Exactly. Exactly.

Jennie Bovard:
You can't help but think what is going through these people's minds, you know? Like if I see something, I say something, in almost every context, unless it's dangerous, unless I'm going to get myself in some real trouble. But I don't know. If I knew there was an out-of-order sign, I'm going to try to stop someone before they go in there. But the wet floor signs, yeah, I'm forever kicking things that are down in that area. I don't have that type of peripheral vision down there. And my poor dog, speaking of him, I'm always kicking him in the legs, the poor thing. Because he gets, you know they get right down there. And I don't see you down there, buddy,

Ben Akuoko:
But no, you never know. Maybe you could get recruited for the next punter. Hamilton Tiger-Cats punter, everybody, Jennie Bovard, right there. She kicked a lot of dogs, a lot of cats, a lot of signs. For sure.

Jennie Bovard:
The next time I boot something, I'm only going to be able to think of, oh, blind Pele, I am stealing that for sure.

Ben Akuoko:
It's good, it's good. Goal. But it's funny that you make mention of, I wonder what people's responses are and people's reactions, because I always think to myself, especially when I'm travelling with another person who is blind or partially sighted, and I always think to myself, it's this big coffee window. So you have just this window and people are sitting having coffee or having tea or whatever, having their lunch. And they see people who have sight loss kind of going by that big window and looking for the door. And I'm just always imagining those people being like, yeah, you're there. Oh no, you went too far. No, don't come back, blind people come back. Oh no, turn around. Oh my God, should I go get them? Oh my God, they were so close.

Jennie Bovard:
It's almost like a sport, right? It's almost like you're watching a sport. I am so there with you. Finding doors is not my strong suit. So much glass and just reflective stuff. And sometimes you just can't tell where the door is situated.

Ben Akuoko:
Yeah.

Jennie Bovard:
Sometimes you go to the door that is locked for whatever reason and you're pulling on it and there's often a sign or something, but I'm not going to see that. I don't know. I never really thought about it in that context of like, hey, maybe they're rooting for me. Maybe they're like, oh no, five more steps to the left. Oh no, five more steps to the right. I find that a lot of us, we automatically go to, oh my God, I look foolish. I feel embarrassed. And what the hell is, what is even the point of feeling that way, you know? That people probably aren't judging us. Probably? I don't know. Are they?

Ben Akuoko:
Exactly. Exactly. And even another funny thing I find is where it could be like a push door, or a pull, no we're going to go with push, a push door. And then here's me just yanking away, yanking away, and just trying to get into the door and be like, well, it's locked. And then seeing an eight-year-old girl just push away and it's like, oh, I should try harder. But I'm going to actually go back and I guess the topic matter of today where we're looking at shame and embarrassment, and I really liked how you were making mention of kind of evolving from once upon a time, when I did kind of bump into that pole, or I did knock over that old lady, which I have done. Once upon a time. I'm sorry to that old lady, shout outs if I did anything, any previous damage.

Jennie Bovard:
Shout out for forgiving them.

Ben Akuoko:
Yeah, exactly. Forgive me, forgive me. But I remember once upon a time where I was so embarrassed, it would wreck my whole entire day. I would feel like, oh my gosh, why am I going out? I just needed to go pick up something from the store and this is what happens. And even just to evolve now, where I think it's the experiences of coming across people like yourself who have low vision as well, and even working in organizations with low vision, I realized that you have to own it, because you can't be perfect. We put these high standards of ourselves, like we have to be these perfect blind people, and I have to literally do a twist and a curb wheel and land it and jump back and forth, but you don't have to be perfect. You know what I mean?

Jennie Bovard:
I think it's that for me personally, I think I was trying to prove to myself and to everyone else that, hey, I can move about the world and function in the world just as anyone who has good eyesight can. That is mostly true. You know, there are real and tangible barriers out there. But I think something else that I've realized, it's absolutely true what you said that I think being around other people who have low vision or who are blind, just being around people who kind of get it and have those shared experiences, that's a big part of it.
I'm learning as well that people who have good eyesight, they do embarrassing shit all the time, and it's a lot of the same stuff. I think it's just that in some cases, we're more likely to do it. Do you know what I mean? People push on a pull door. People who have good eyesight, they knock over the wet floor signs. It may or may not be because of their vision. It's not because of their vision most likely, it's likely because they're not paying attention.
But you know what I mean? I think the bottom line is that stuff happens no matter who you are. Maybe we're more likely to fall in a pothole or what have you, right? Embarrassing things happen to everyone, or potentially embarrassing things as I like to call them, because it's what you do with the experience right? In the moment. I had very recently, I was out shopping, and I'm going to try not to go on a rant here, but it might be hard. I don't know if this has happened in Ontario, but here in Nova Scotia during Covid, they took away at a lot of the grocery stores, they took away the little baskets that you can carry around with you with one hand. And they haven't brought them back.
I haven't been able to get a straight answer why. In fact, I've asked multiple customer service people at multiple stores. Short of starting an advocacy campaign, I've had some conversations. They can't give me a straight answer. I've got all kinds of different reasons. One person actually responded, "Oh, you're visually impaired, but you're so pretty." And I was just so flabbergasted, I couldn't even respond. I was like, wow, wait to miss the point, lady. We don't have the baskets at a lot of places anymore. We don't have a smaller shopping cart at a lot of places. And where they're supposed to be available for some reason, they're out in the parking lot and they're not in the store available. So I, the other day, was trying to drive one of these gigantic monstrosities of a shopping cart. I fully did not need it. But I couldn't carry the amount of stuff I needed to get either.
So I'm shopping around and I wander over into the clothing section and my depth perception is very poor. I'm not good at navigating things through narrow spaces. But the thing is, is I was in this really wide corridor, but I was trying to get close to this rack of cute pajamas that I was eyeballing. And don't I take the whole rack down with the cart, the whole thing comes crashing down. And I'm just like, oh, that's perfect. That's not going to draw any attention. So I immediately just start cleaning it up, trying to clean up after myself. Certainly someone that works there comes over and they're like, "Hey, can I help you?" And I'm like, "No, no, don't worry." I just couldn't see where I was going. I'll pick it up, don't worry about it.
And I don't know, I probably should have let them help me out. But in the moment I was like, no, this is silly. This was my bad. Let me fix this. But there's that twinge of embarrassment. And again, like you said, there's a time when that would've ruined my whole day, would've sent me, I might've cried, I might've gotten red in the face and I would've let it affect the rest of my day.
I just moved on with my day that day. Hopefully the staff person had a little bit of a chuckle because they kind of know me. They've seen me there before, and I think they figured out I can't see well. If they see me driving a cart, there's a good clue. But she was very gracious. And I don't know, I just, I think that would embarrass a lot of people who maybe don't have a visual impairment and are not used to doing that kind of thing. Do you know what I mean? I think that that would embarrass a lot of people.

Ben Akuoko:
Exactly. And I like how you, first of all, you knock it over, you should have just been like, oh, this is how I shop. I just knock it over. You know like...

Jennie Bovard:
I couldn't get to the ones in the back.

Ben Akuoko:
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Talk about a fall-down sale. You know what I mean? So we got this, we got clearance, cleared out the house.

Jennie Bovard:
I think this one's on sale now. This one's damaged now.

Ben Akuoko:
Exactly. Exactly. Break some glass and be like, I'll take this one. But you make such a good point. And the one thing that I always bring to the way I live life is the fact that I want to be unconventional. So I found that when I was younger, the things that I expected people to think, I would just twist it on them, right? So if I were to make a mistake, I'd fill in a joke over there, you know what I mean? I don't know, I get hit in the nads with a soccer ball. I'd be like, "Well, I'm pretty ballsy still." So just something like that. And I feel like-

Jennie Bovard:
That's comedy gold though.

Ben Akuoko:
Yeah. And you know what's the thing that I don't get, we pay to watch comedy and it's right there in front of us, and know what, I'm going to reveal a secret and hush, hush. This is a secret. But I guess it's millions of people listening.

Jennie Bovard:
It's just between us. Oh, I have millions of people now?

Ben Akuoko:
Millions of viewers, oh wow, I hope.

Jennie Bovard:
Now that you're on.

Ben Akuoko:
I hope to get you millions of viewers, but I want to do standup comedy.

Jennie Bovard:
Oh. I think you got the chops, bud.

Ben Akuoko:
Yeah, thank you. Thank you. And honestly, I won't invite any of my friends or family because they'll probably boo me off-stage. But I want to do this because I want to have my experiences seen in the world. And sometimes, especially I got to say in the field I am in, in advocacy, in the helping field, you have to be straight-laced. You have to be back straight. And sometimes it feels good just to laugh. Right? And just the stories that I have over the years.
I remember a story about looking for a Little Caesars, and I was in a plaza looking for a Little Caesars. I couldn't find it. So usually I go into a random store and I'm just like, "Oh, where's the Little Caesars?" And you know how the clerk is in the back or the people serving are in the back? Here's me thinking I'm in a place where the front desk is right there. Right? So I walk in almost the type of person diving in the pool without looking, "Hey, where's the nearest Little Caesars?" Thinking I'm at the front desk. And a lady who's enjoying her sandwich, poor lady, enjoying her sub, is all flustered. And she's like, "Oh, oh, let me show you." Puts down her sub, takes me and my friend over. And it's just like, things like-

Jennie Bovard:
It's like this guy's hungry, I got to help him out.

Ben Akuoko:
Exactly. Put down your sub lady, and help me out, like what are you doing? I need assistance. And just stuff like that. And even...

Jennie Bovard:
You're so entitled.

Ben Akuoko:
Yeah, well.

Jennie Bovard:
Put down your sub and help me out.

Ben Akuoko:
I was hangry. I was hangry. I was hangry. But just things like that. And I find it's just such a beautiful thing that we could laugh at things that happen and not take our vision too seriously. Right?

Jennie Bovard:
I'm glad that, I like to be right. I'm glad that you sort of confirmed. You've sort of always had this attitude, which you've made light of it, you've rolled with it. And that says a lot about your personality. And I think a lot of us, including myself, we have those moments when we should think, what would Ben do? What funny thing would Ben say?

Ben Akuoko:
The reason why I find it so funny, it's just so far removed from who you are as an actual person. So, a perfect story. We were speaking about, I was saying about my MSW graduation. And this year when I graduated, I graduated from my diploma of social work back in, I don't want to give away my age, but back in 2008, my BSW. And my convocations were horror shows. I didn't ask for help. And I say it was so far removed because here's me accepting my diploma. And then the main dean reaching out, and me in front of a crowd of people pretty much leaving the main dean hanging. And I wasn't a cane user, and everyone was like, what a jerk. What a jackass.
He just left the main dean hanging, and him, he was still sticking out his hand. Like I said, it makes, it's funny because that's not who I am as a person. And it's just so far removed. And to kind of have that explanation after, I bet he would be chuckling like, wow, I just got high or left hanging. But in the reality, it's like I can't see your hand. And I feel like it's good to just laugh on the ridiculousness of what people thought before. Right?

Jennie Bovard:
And it's so funny that, it's so funny, I love that example because I will try something and put myself in a situation where I don't know how this is going to go. Should I bring my mobility cane? Should I bring my magnifier? Let's show up and see what happens. And you don't know until you try and then you're like, oh, this could have gone a bit more smoothly, even if I just had a cane. I didn't even need to talk to anybody about anything. If I just had a cane, some things would've clicked on the other end for the other people and maybe they might've put the diploma right in your hand. Well, I hope you got the diploma at the end of the day. It sounds like you got it at the end of the day.

Ben Akuoko:
Actually, because I disrespected the dean, I actually got banned from...

Jennie Bovard:
I don't blame them. I don't blame them.

Ben Akuoko:
I'm not allowed on school-

Jennie Bovard:
Then you had to go redo the whole thing, right?

Ben Akuoko:
Exactly. I'm not allowed on Sheridan College's premises anymore, so. Actually, another story that I'm going to bring up, and we were talking about laughter as well, and the one thing, I like how you said, the whole see you later. And sometimes it's nice, especially the friends and the allies that we have, to let them feel comfortable about laughing sometimes. And I'm not saying to be the butt of all jokes all the time, you know those stupid, oh, you're blind, I'm funny. When it's not even-

Jennie Bovard:
How many fingers am I holding up? Not funny.

Ben Akuoko:
Exactly. Exactly. But even the fact that to get that comfort zone of, you know they care. And a funny story, I remember I was having sushi with one of my friends, and my thing is when I'm just doing something and I just start hearing people laughing, I'm like, uh-oh, uh-oh, when am I doing? What did I just do?

Jennie Bovard:
What's going on?

Ben Akuoko:
What did I just do? And I remember I was just like, I had my chopsticks. For me, I was just dipping my sushi into the soy sauce. And I hear my buddy just laughing. I'm just like, why is he laughing? He's like, "Oh man, I don't want to laugh at this." But I was dipping my sushi just on the table. Just on the table, thinking it was soy, just on the bare table. Totally missing the soy sauce. And he's like, "Oh, I'm sorry to laugh at it." I'm like, "I am not going to lie, that's the funniest shit..."

Jennie Bovard:
It's pretty funny.

Ben Akuoko:
"Ever."

Jennie Bovard:
But now you got to tell me where the soy sauce is.

Ben Akuoko:
It's almost like that just gradually understanding and gradually being like, okay, know what? I got to be truthful, you know? I got to be truthful. And it just gradually happened where yeah, point me in the right direction. Let me know what's going on, because you got to say, I got to admit, I missed out on a lot. And even gradually becoming a cane user, I'm like, why didn't I use this big beautiful piece of metal aluminum a long time ago? And it's just like, it invites people. And I feel like that's the beauty when we do look at embarrassment and shame, I like to say for anybody who is judging me for bumping into stuff or kicking stuff by accident, you would be doing the same thing if you had that field of vision. It's my eyes, you would be in the same circumstances. It's not like, cognitively I can't absorb what you're saying, or cognitively I can't function.
It's literally my eyes. And as a cane user, we're always bumping into stuff. That's how we find our way. And there's nothing wrong with it. It's amazing. People gravitate to you. The friends that I have met, like, hey, some of my best friends I met from accidentally sitting on their lap on the bus. Maybe I might meet my next wife from accidentally going in an elevator and getting lost in the elevator. So I find that when people see you're having fun with it and people see it doesn't bother you, they want to hop on the bandwagon. I always say either hop on the bandwagon, get left behind, or I'm obviously driving it, so get run over by it. You know what I mean? Yeah, exactly.

Jennie Bovard:
I'll take over if you ever need a driver.

Ben Akuoko:
Yeah, exactly.

Jennie Bovard:
You make so many good points here. And before we wrap up this incredible conversation, I could talk to you forever I feel, we're going to have to do a part deux. But before we wrap this up, you made a lot of really good points. And I think there's something to be said about the people who might be judging us for bumping into things, or just having nasty thoughts. It's okay to be curious. It's okay to think to yourself, oh, I wonder what's going on in their day? Why on earth did they walk into that pane of glass? Why can't they find the door?
It's okay to think these things, but if you're being judgy and thinking nasty things and negative things about someone who's trying to make their way, whether they use a cane, whether they have a visible disability or not, you literally have no idea what is going on with them and their day. So I think if anything, they should be the ones that should be ashamed.
So if you find yourself judging someone who's using a mobility device, who may look like they're having trouble getting around, they might look like they've had one too many drinks. And they probably, maybe they have. But you don't know. And maybe they had a reason to get drunk that day. Maybe they're having a really bad week, and alcohol is not the answer, but sometimes people need to escape. I digress.
But I think the shame should be on the people who are being judgy. And at the same time, I used to be more easily embarrassed, more easily humiliated. And I think that it's okay to go through that process, because as we've said so many times, you don't know what you're doing until you try. You don't know what it's like using a mobility cane until you find it within yourself to try.
And if you're living your life one way right now and you get embarrassed easily, just know that that's okay. We are not judging you for having those feelings. But I personally, I hope that you can come to a place where you're a little bit more like Ben, and if you can make jokes about it, all the better. And then you can come on the podcast and we can have a good time. But then before we go, was there anything else that you wanted to add? Any final thoughts? And if not, then just let us know where the heck can we find your awesome podcast?

Ben Akuoko:
Of course, Jennie, of course. So just want to let everybody know, last comments before you're exactly right for those who are shaming other people for just kind of navigating and living your life. And I hope you get multiple voices, multitudes of voice, shame, shame, shame. And I want it in a crescendo, you know, shame on you. Let people live their lives. And at the same time, for those individuals, different personalities, it is hard. But just know that even with a disability, even with sight loss, even low vision, even blindness, even with albinism, even if you were, and I'm going to say in quotations, able-bodied person, there's always going to be embarrassment. And there's always going to be some form of shame. And when you own it, you just become happier and you just become more content and you just enjoy life. And the flowers smell a little better and the sun's a little brighter. And the little dog skipping on the street are a little cuter. And yeah.

Jennie Bovard:
Let's not make the sun brighter. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. Unpopular opinion.

Ben Akuoko:
Oh yeah, sorry to those people with light sensitivities, my bad, my bad. But yeah, you could definitely find our podcast at CNIB, The Lens: Living Diverse. And we are on all platforms. So we're on Spotify, we are on Stitcher, we're on iTunes, we're on SoundCloud. Anywhere that you could get your podcasts. Also, we do Old Time Radio too. We're going to take over everything. We're going to do telekinesis, we'll go straight to your mind. But all jokes aside, check out the show. It really challenges intersectionalities. You get to hear my dumb jokes. Plus you get to get thought-provoking conversations. So yeah, check that out if you have the opportunity.

Jennie Bovard:
Thank you so, so much for coming on Low Vision Moments and for all of the incredible stuff that you're doing for the blind and visually impaired and low vision community, whatever your preferred terminology is, people, just keep it up. I love all the stuff that you're doing and let's go offline and maybe talk about running. So I hope you have another couple hours to do that.

Ben Akuoko:
Of course, of course. We're running. Definitely thank you for having me, Jennie. I appreciate you.

Jennie Bovard:
That Ben, isn't he a gem? I really do think we need to start a Low Vision Moments clothing line. Picture it. A t-shirt that says Blind Pele and an image of a person just booting a wet floor sign across the floor. I'd wear that. I want to thank you so, so much for listening and watching this time and always. If you have any feedback or suggestions about the pod, I would love to hear from you. You can send an email to podcasts@ami.ca, or give us a call at 1-866-509-4545. Once more, the phone number is 1-866-509-4545.
Just make sure to mention Low Vision Moments in that message, please, and thank you. You can come and follow me on Instagram or TikTok if those are your things. You can find me there under Uberblonde4, U-B-E-R-B-L-O-N-D-E and the number four. Mark Aflalo is our technical producer. Ryan Delehanty is our podcast coordinator. Manager at AMI Audio is Andy Frank. And shame on all of them and shame on all of you for putting up with my nonsense for nearly three years of this podcast. You all do make this podcast a reality though. So thank you. Thank you so much. And until next time, remember to ask yourself what would Ben do?